I’ve been captivated by John Lee’s meticulous observational examine and revolutionary approaches to paint in his work. I’ve lengthy adopted his work’s spectacular evolution by way of his social media updates. So, when John agreed to an e-mail interview from his dwelling in Williamsburg, Virginia, I used to be thrilled. In our dialog, we delve into his background, however the highlight is totally on his insights relating to coloration and his methodical strategy to observational portray. A number of years in the past Antrese Wooden interviewed him in her podcast on Savvy Painter which presents an in depth have a look at his previous influences and inspirations. Our dialogue right here additional expands on a number of points about his artistic use of coloration and compositional concepts. A heartfelt because of John for sharing his time and insights so brazenly on this interview.

Eyelash, 20 x 16 inches, Oil on Linen, 2018

John Lee, based mostly in Williamsburg, Virginia, is an Affiliate Professor of Portray at William & Mary, is a graduate of the certificates program on the Pennsylvania Academy of the Advantageous Arts in Philadelphia, holds a BFA from the College of Pennsylvania, and acquired his MFA from the College of Indiana in Bloomington. John is an oil painter who works straight from life with an curiosity in coloration, gentle, house, and weight. He has labored in conventional genres corresponding to nonetheless life and self-portraiture, however his major subject material is inside areas. John has proven at varied venues nationally, however primarily within the northeast area, together with a 2019 solo present at First Avenue Gallery in New York. He’s a previous member of the Zeuxis Nonetheless Life Affiliation and has proven with the Midwest Paint Group. He lately served as a juror for the Bethesda Portray Awards in Bethesda, MD (Serving Virginia, Baltimore, and Washington D.C.). From the artist’s CV on his web site

Larry Groff: What have been your early pre-painter years like? Was there one thing particularly that made you wish to grow to be a painter?

John Lee: Larry, thanks for this chance. Individuals usually say they’ve at all times drawn since childhood, and I’m no exception. All through college, I used to be the ‘college artist,’ in my youth, I crafted issues from on a regular basis supplies—dragons from milk cartons and objects with popsicle sticks, paper cups, scotch tape, paper plates, and so forth. I created quite a few puppets, masks, costumes, spaceships, and props for motion figures. Maybe that was when my creativity really flourished.

I used to be born to artsy dad and mom who met in artwork college. My father taught studio artwork on the faculty degree, exposing me to the artwork world, museums, galleries, lecture rooms, and artwork books. Within the mid-Eighties, throughout highschool, I developed a deep fascination with hip-hop, sketching graffiti in notebooks and on partitions. I delved into graffiti as an artwork kind, which led me to the New York Artwork World, pop artwork, and neo-expressionist portray. This sparked my curiosity within the broader artwork world. I explored Pop artists, their reactions to Summary Expressionists, and the influences stretching again to Picasso. Regardless of this, I initially resisted finding out artwork in faculty, not eager to merely observe in my father’s footsteps.

Rubik’s Wedge, 34 x 42 inches, Oil on Linen, 2015

As an alternative, I attended a liberal arts faculty however was academically unprepared, although artwork got here naturally to me. After failing out, I returned dwelling, labored odd jobs for six months, after which joined my father’s summer season drawing class. This expertise was transformative; every thing clicked. I immersed myself in traditional drawing books and modernism essays. One essay on modernism, revealing its distinction from ‘Up to date,’ left me so electrified I couldn’t sleep that evening. It was throughout these college-level studio lessons, many taught by my father that I solidified my path in artwork and solid a brand new reference to him. From then on, I’ve felt most at dwelling in artwork studios, museums, galleries, or artwork bookstores. They’re my conduit to the world.

Moreover, a pivotal second occurred whereas I perused Nicholas Fox Weber’s e-book on Leland Bell. Sitting in an artwork historical past class, I used to be captivated by the colour and motion of a determine’s leg in one in every of Bell’s ‘Morning’ collection work. It appeared flat but felt strong and alive. This revelation deepened my obsession with Bell’s work, main me to scour Philadelphia for his e-book. Bell’s insights resonated with me, and his phrases have been a recurring supply of knowledge. Understanding Bell opened my eyes to Matisse, Picasso, Cezanne, and ultimately Corot, Titian, and Chardin, amongst others. Bell taught me to understand the ‘music’ in portray, enabling me to understand the concord within the masterpieces that preceded him.

Cereal Bowl, 30 x 36 inches, Oil on Linen, 2012

LG You studied at PAFA; I’m guessing that was massively essential by way of studying to color and forming your concepts about artmaking. Are you able to inform us one thing about your expertise there?

John Lee: The Pennsylvania Academy of Advantageous Arts (PAFA) was vital for varied causes. Nonetheless, trying again, I’ve at all times regarded my preliminary artwork lessons on the native faculty in my hometown as probably the most influential. A number of core ideas have been instilled in me, corresponding to seeing coloration and gesture drawing, stemming primarily from artwork books. Kimon Nicolaides’s ‘The Pure Technique to Draw‘ emphasised gesture as a type of empathy, capturing the actions and weight of the world. Portray concepts from Charles Hawthorne, gleaned from his e-book and Arthur Stern’s coloration e-book, taught me to understand by way of gestural and spatial actions and to see the world as stunning coloration relationships. These ideas resonated with me immediately; they’re why I paint and am drawn to the joys of seeing. This ardour carried over to PAFA, the place some instructors acknowledged my knack for coloration,working throughout the entire composition concurrently, and my capability to discern underlying summary relationships.

I selected PAFA for its studio artwork programs (with a mannequin), the much less daunting prospect of dwelling in Philadelphia in comparison with NYC, and a curiosity concerning the metropolis the place I used to be born (although I had no reminiscence of it, having moved to Arkansas at one 12 months previous). At PAFA, I grew fascinated with educational artwork coaching, delving into books on French educational coaching and anatomy. My earlier schooling centered on broad gestures, so I taught myself to work ‘on level’ with a charcoal pencil, mastering contours and cross-hatching, and making quite a few drawings from casts and skeletons. I memorized the names of muscle tissue and bones. I immersed myself on this educational fashion for a few years, considering it was what the Academy epitomized.

But, deep down, I knew this wasn’t the route my coronary heart was really drawn to in artwork. Once I painted a nonetheless life, it inherently took on an summary high quality. Jan Baltzell, a painter and instructor, acknowledged this, usually showcasing my work alongside her class’s. I resonated with Baltzell’s educating, notably her inclusion of Matisse and a memorable Lennart Anderson postcard, a picture of the portray with the pile of nails and hammer. Anderson’s work. I felt very related to Lennart Anderson’s work as I knew it from the ‘Artwork of the Actual’ e-book I noticed in my first portray class. Each Anderson’s and Leland Bell’s, work was a longstanding obsession of mine, although I felt a better affinity to Anderson’s temperament. In my ultimate 12 months at PAFA, I met Scott Noel and felt a right away connection. He grew to become an influential determine in my life, particularly round 1996 earlier than his rise in recognition.

Put up-graduation, whereas working and portray, I continuously imagined Scott observing my work, pondering his potential suggestions. Over time, I disagreed with a few of his teachings, which felt restrictive, akin to enjoying basketball with professionals. I wasn’t curious about finishing a portray (or part) in a single session. Nonetheless, Scott’s insights on ‘tone’ helped me reconcile my earlier educational coaching’s restricted palette with my preliminary schooling, which was rooted in major and secondary mixtures. This melded my understanding of worth, boring temperature, and spectrum colours. Scott served as a bridge, harmonizing my beforehand disparate concepts about coloration.

Nonetheless Life with Lemons, 30 x 36 inches, Oil on Linen, 2000

LG: You bought your BFA at Penn after which your MFA on the College of Indiana. What was that like? Who did you primarily examine with, and what would possibly you say about how they influenced your route in portray?

John Lee: I attended Penn at evening whereas holding a day job, leaving no time for portray throughout these two years. My coursework primarily centered on artwork historical past and literature, with poetry and brief story lessons notably fulfilling. Throughout this time, I developed a confidence in writing that I later utilized to narrate portray with liberal arts college students. I took a category referred to as City Sociology that defined town of Chicago by way of social zones, such because the downtown leisure district, surrounded by the skyscrapers of the enterprise district, surrounded by the commercial, after which the suburban zone. I noticed this as a standard still-life setup, with the skyscrapers because the bottles and the factories because the apples. Maybe this pertains to what Erle Loran discusses in his e-book that dissects Cezanne’s compositions.

Upon finishing my research at Penn, I instantly enrolled in an MFA program at Indiana College, drawn by its respect for figurative work and its affordability, as I used to be self-financing my schooling. Earlier than attending Indiana, I researched this system on-line, a comparatively new software. I found Tim Kennedy and Eve Mansdorf, each IU’s portray instructors and former Lennart Anderson college students, whose work I admired. My analysis additionally led me to Maureen Mullarkey’s web site, the place I encountered the works of Ken Kewley, Dik Liu, and Catherine Kehoe.

Additional analysis revealed that many painters from the Kansas Metropolis Artwork Institute continued their research at Indiana College for his or her MFA, together with college students of Wilbur Niewald, one other lifelong fascination of mine. This urged a possible connection to IU. Nonetheless, I discovered that some school members at IU didn’t share my admiration for sure painters like Porter, Sickert, Lopez, and Uglow, which led to some disagreements throughout my tenure. Regardless of this, I acquired help from all of the educating school.

Probably the most beneficial takeaways from my time at IU was a chunk of recommendation I overheard from Eve Mansdorf. She suggested that no matter a part of a portray you’re engaged on ought to be at eye degree. This revelation has been essential to my observe, main me to favor easels that permit for such changes, even for small panel work.

Howdy Yellow Moon Touchdown, 34 x 42 inches, Oil on Linen, 2015

LG: You describe your self as a ‘Responsive painter’ who engages with ‘visible stuff.’ How is what you do completely different than what may be referred to as a perceptual painter?

John Lee: Throughout my time at IU, I experimented with completely different approaches to portray. I ventured into creating summary figures (breakdancers), preceded by intensive drawing research, and a big determine portray that includes myself and a pal, specializing in the life throughout the figures. Whereas these tasks pushed the boundaries of my earlier work and garnered optimistic suggestions from school, two different work resonated extra deeply with me. One was a still-life from my studio; the opposite depicted a tranquil hallway in a Nineteenth-century schoolhouse’s basement. Each captured what I instinctively sought in my artwork: consideration to gentle, nuanced surprises, found colours, tactile high quality, and a way of types sitting in house.
This strategy is what I imply by ‘Responsive,’ a time period I adopted from the traditional drawing textbook Nathan Goldstein’s ‘The Artwork of Responsive Drawing.’  In responsive portray, one is moved by the act of trying. It transcends mere depiction or illustration. It’s not about conveying data or subject material by way of paint. As an alternative, it’s about being stirred by the sunshine, coloration, motion, gravity, and the sudden connections and disconnections. It’s about sensing one thing past the topic and its obvious factuality.

This attitude may, or maybe ought to, inform our understanding of ‘perceptual portray.’ It appears self-evident {that a} painter working straight from life ought to be excited by their visible expertise. Nonetheless, I’m not satisfied that that is at all times the case. For me, the which means has little to do with the inherent significance of objects. The subject material doesn’t maintain private or social significance for me. But, I’m wondering if points of my work, like coloration, would possibly stem from familial connections. My mom, an beginner inside decorator, painted our lounge ceiling an earthy violet. An older portray of my father featured a cardboard field. Over time, earthy violets and cardboard hues have grow to be vital to me. Whether or not this choice is inherited or coincidental stays unclear.

I’m not curious about the subject material for its personal sake nor essentially fixated on the paint. Nonetheless, I enjoyment of each once they join deeply with gentle, coloration, gravity, and actions. It’s about extra than simply rendering the topic convincingly. The subject material serves merely as a conduit for this exhilaration. Goldstein emphasised that every one drawings (and work) ought to originate from pleasure concerning the topic’s potential expressive vitality and the way it would possibly coalesce within the art work.

Acid Tub, 30 x 40 inches, Oil on Linen, 2011

Eerie Basement, 28 x 36 inches, Oil on Linen, 2008

Himalayan Pink, 12 x 15 inches, Oil on Board, 2017

LG: Your excessive engagement with coloration in your work is exceptional. May you inform us a few of your ideas on why and the way coloration is essential to your work?

John Lee: Thanks. Why is coloration so very important to me? That’s a difficult query. I discover myself captivated by coloration moments. Simply in the present day, strolling by way of a brand new campus constructing, I used to be struck by the colours contained in the door jambs down a hallway. I’d go a vacant storefront and be drawn to the hues inside or the colours forged by a shadowy porch. A coloration occasion would possibly cease me when strolling down the hallways in some constructing. Within the mornings, I wake to the colours close to the ceiling corners in my bed room. These experiences have been part of my life endlessly. It’s akin to being ensnared in a pleasant realm. I’ve painted basements, drawn to their darkish hues. Basements, usually websites of entrapment in fiction and actuality, intrigue me.

Some basement work I titled “The Unimaginable Shrinking Man,” impressed by a Nineteen Fifties sci-fi movie the place a person, shrunk to an insect’s dimension, finally ends up trapped in a basement. However as a painter, I’d relish being ‘trapped’ in a basement! Even ready in a financial institution, I fantasize about spending a 12 months portray the colours across the edges of the financial institution’s inside. If a painter isn’t educated to understand coloration and light-weight, they may enterprise out trying to find topics. However a color-trained painter sees hues proper of their entrance yard, their dwelling, or upon waking. Fairfield Porter as soon as stated, ‘An artist who can’t paint with out the suitable subject material is like somebody who can’t get away from bed within the morning as a result of they haven’t discovered life’s which means.’ That’s not a direct quote however a recollection.

Octopus’s Backyard, 40 x 50 inches, Oil on Linen, 2022

LG: You usually work inside a slender vary of coloration values, which helps create a harmonious really feel to your palette. How did you develop this strategy, and what do you consider it provides to the general impression of your work?

John Lee: I’m undecided if this was a deliberate selection, however each consciously and subconsciously, I’ve shied away from robust contrasts of sunshine and shadow, as that’s usually anticipated. I’ve deliberately averted home windows or doorways in my work, openings that would result in areas with extra intense gentle. As an alternative of embracing a broad selection, I’m drawn to focusing intently on a specific passage or problem. Once we navigate between two realms, like gentle and shadow, it’s too simple to fall again on sure generalizations. Mild would possibly solely have to make sense in relation to the shadows, and the reverse can be true. With a basic robust gentle juxtaposed in opposition to a powerful darkish, one would possibly get away with merely suggesting every thing. Nonetheless, I’m at all times intrigued by the notion of portray a wall the place the values are subtly diverse, but there’s a wealthy range of colours and hues inside that wall. A painter usually simplifies the wall after which concentrates on a evident beam of daylight hitting it. To me, drama could be simpler to seize, and there’s extra to find after we look past the drama.

Outdated motion pictures, particularly these filmed in New York Metropolis through the ’70s or ’80s, maintain a sure allure. I usually discover myself gazing previous the actors and characters, trying across the edges of the scene to watch the weathered, hazy environment of NYC from that period. Equally, throughout division conferences, I’d discover my gaze drifting to the colours surrounding my colleagues as we sit across the desk. I recall Jan Baltzell, the PAFA instructor I discussed earlier, advising somebody to “Take note of flooring in work and the way completely different artists deal with flooring.” That recommendation has resonated with me. I’m captivated by flooring in Dutch work, as seen with Saenredam’s cathedrals, Gerard Ter Borch’s interiors, Rackstraw Downes, and plenty of others. . This pertains to your query a few quieter drama, not a lot the overt drama on the middle of the portray, whether or not narrative motion or distinction of sunshine and shadow. Bonnard’s bathtub work, with their colours mirrored in flooring, tubs, and tiles, come to thoughts, as does Morandi’s nonetheless lifes, the place objects cluster tightly on the portray’s nucleus, akin to an Albers sq..

Brontosaurus, 14 x 12 inches, Oil on Linen, 2014

As a youth exploring faculty artwork applications, I usually encountered work of hallways with dramatic gentle reflections beneath an open door. These work struck me as merely intelligent, a sort of ‘have a look at this dramatic reflection!’ strategy, with the reflections sometimes brushed in loosely, nearly glibly. I keep in mind considering I’d by no means wish to make such work again then. Nonetheless, over time, I’ve grown to like portray flooring in varied settings, like institutional hallways, dropping myself within the refined coloration nuances.

Compressed colours are fascinating. Ingres as soon as remarked that probably the most lovely factor in artwork is 2 juxtaposed colours of the identical worth however completely different temperatures. I used to check with this as ‘Simultaneous Distinction.’ I recognize the sense of compression in coloration, a sense of gravity: shut colours, a way of density. Trying again, I’m wondering if this choice signifies a deeper need for extra frequent hugs.

LG: Your portray is an ‘try to unify noticed coloration divisions’ with out counting on chiaroscuro. What do you imply by this?

John Lee: My response to your final query touched upon this. Nonetheless, relating to the event of my strategy, I primarily understand coloration as one thing found by way of mixing paint. I can’t merely choose a coloration and use it straight. Whereas I discover quite a few charming colours from manufacturers like Williamsburg Paint, it’s not a matter of selecting a tube of coloration and making use of it straight or with minimal alteration, corresponding to making a tint. As an alternative, coloration should emerge from a basis of prismatic major and secondary paint mixing. Consequently, I usually discover myself firming down colours greater than not, maybe contributing to unity inside my palette.

Innertube, 20 x 24 inches, Oil on Linen, 2018

LG: What are some challenges of working with this restricted coloration vary? Does the lighting of your setups or scene equally keep away from deep shadows or overly vivid contrasts?

John Lee: I believe a part of what makes this query fascinating is that by ‘restricted coloration vary,’ one might be referring to the restricted colours of the setup, or one might be referring to the restricted colours on my palette (the vary of coloration paint mixtures). Concerning the colour within the setup, the noticed colours are so shut collectively that it might be a bit like strolling on ice; one false transfer and one loses the unity of the aircraft. I wish to get the power of the colour, which is to be daring, but additionally to mood the colour to discover a worth and depth that enables the colour to take a seat and lock along with the opposite colours.That is to be contemplative.So, it’s about looking for my approach between the boldness, which is expounded to the dance and the gesture, after which to the contemplative aspect, which might kill that felt response to the colour. It’s like Fauvism; that can be not Fauvism. It’s maybe self-defeating. I see this as an intuition, a pure a part of my sensibility, and because of this, I really feel related to a number of Twentieth-century British painters who appear to have an identical, associated sense of coloration.Uglow, Harold Gilman, Duncan Grant, Vanessa Bell, and Gwen John, amongst others.

So, I can assume that I’ve the colour, however then after I convey the portray into one other gentle, I’ll really feel very completely different, or if I again up a bit extra from the portray, it might not really feel as right because it did after I was nearer to the portray.I would like the colours to unify, on the one hand, however however, I can usually get pleasure from it once they form of ‘slip out of drugs’ a bit, and there’s something a bit jarring. However the jarring high quality is one thing that I really feel I arrived at in hopefully a extra honest approach than can be the case if I used to be too consciously pushing a dramatic color-intensity distinction. I would like the portray to seek out itself organically, the poetry to be a by-product of engaged on the colour relationships.

I’ll hunt down conditions, lighting conditions, or occasions based mostly on one thing aside from deep shadows and robust contrasts.I’ll like contrasts of temperature or depth over worth.As I give it some thought, I can’t even take into consideration or recall any current paintable moments for me that have been based mostly on robust worth contrasts. These conditions (with robust worth contrasts) are normally seen in classroom conditions the place the studio is darkened with no overhead lighting, after which a clamp gentle is shone on a set-up of all-white still-life objects.Starting college students usually work with the need to fill in extremes, blacks and whites, which are preconceived after which could be positioned into the drawing, whereas painters, on the opposite finish of that spectrum, are pushing the colour into place.I’m fascinated about how a Eighties-era Wolf Kahn mixes the paint on canvas, so the colour is conjured and tuned in an open method reasonably than being understood and positioned. I wish to paint between these two extremes, in search of satisfying notes and chords of coloration.

Lay and Bay, 34 x 40 inches, Oil on Linen, 2018

LG: How does your observational portray course of affect your coloration decisions? How faithfully do you reply to the colours you’re taking a look at? Why is (or isn’t) that essential to you?

John Lee: I observe the colours I see, realizing that the colours are elusive.I don’t assume I could be fully trustworthy to what’s there.The colour can at all times be one thing else from what I initially noticed or anticipated.I see the potential for differing colours nearly in every single place.I don’t consciously invent colours that knowingly depart from statement.With some work, I could be in a mindset the place the colours are stronger in how I see or paint them.I see these colours ‘in’ the topic, throughout the view I’m portray, and try to drag them out.I wish to be true to what’s there, to be respectful of what’s there.But it could additionally really feel irresponsible to the portray as an entire.It’s like life, maybe.I’m not an excellent liar, I don’t like to inform lies.However I additionally understand that to make one thing occur, it might be essential to be dishonest on some degree.Making a portray includes composing all the massive elements with some sense of decision. I believe I let myself get slowed down with the various little colours I see in an space.I keep away from simplifying passages.How damaged up ought to the aircraft be?It appears there’s at all times extra to see inside any given space.This coloration exploration is extra essential than delivering a sure topic or object.I’m much less curious about telling you one thing concerning the topic and extra curious about trying intently on the coloration I see.

LG: Once I studied with George Nick, he burdened to college students the significance of cautious statement and getting the precise coloration tone. I liked his work, however I usually felt his colours weren’t the identical as what I noticed. I assumed his colours have been usually extra fascinating than I noticed in nature. He discouraged slavish copying of nature, as an alternative to work parallel to it. With this in thoughts, what extra are you able to say about getting “accuracy,” good pitch, and particular person expression in coloration?

Pickin’ and Grinnin’, 16 x 14 inches, Oil on Linen, 2016

Summer time Brown Head, 10 x 7 inches, Oil on Board, 2017

John Lee: A number of years in the past, I performed an experiment the place I accomplished two fast small self-portrait head work in simply over an hour every. Beginning with a fast pencil drawing, I laid down massive coloration shapes, mixing them simply as soon as and portray them cleanly with out later alterations. I centered on approximating the worth, permitting the hues to be as exaggerated as wanted. This was to gauge suggestions on social media, with some painters who studied with Nick in thoughts. I questioned whether or not I over-analyze colours in my work, pondering, “Why can’t I simply put it down and let it’s?” Whereas I acquired optimistic on-line suggestions, I couldn’t undertake this strategy repeatedly. I have to belief and consider in what I make, which implies slowing down and meditating on the portray as I work.

I’ve lengthy admired George Nick’s work and adopted his profession. Once I turned 41, I noticed from a Nick catalog that his profession appeared to take off round 43, his age after I was born. This statement was based mostly on his output as I perceived it. From what little I may glean, his educating appeared to emphasise worth and tonal relationships, probably instructing his class to create work with solely three values. Whereas I wasn’t a Nick scholar and could also be mistaken, it appears hue may be extra versatile so long as it aligns with relative worth. Worth seems extra justifiable than a wide range of hues in nature.

Chardin’s Tin Can, 36 x 38 inches, Oil on Linen, 2022

I think about Fauvism as a motion the place painters might need thought, “What if worth (tone) is much less essential?” The Fauvists amplified hues, letting their depth be as wanted, usually diminishing gentle and darkish relationships, which may flatten types and house. This flatness may be a byproduct of their concentrate on enhancing colours. (Concerning Fauvism, I’ve heard arguments that Matisse’s coloration works resulting from tonal construction, a viewpoint I don’t essentially share.)

I used to be taught to view all coloration properties as equal gamers; no single facet like worth or depth is extra essential than one other. Coloration is an open, evolving idea. Typically, it’s thought that right worth relationships permit coloration to be utilized nearly decoratively. I see coloration as an interwoven facet, continuously discovering itself. Adjusting one aspect impacts the others.
Coloration is overwhelming, akin to an introvert confronted with myriad decisions. It stops me, maintaining me centered on a nook of my portray, harking back to the paradox of halving the gap to a wall with out reaching it. I aspire to be broadly decisive, however that always feels pressured. I love Gabriel Laderman’s nonetheless life work, which use a single coloration for the ground. I search unity, like an ant making an attempt to understand your complete room, in distinction to a painter in a spaceship viewing your complete portray as a continent.

These days, I’ve been portray largely whereas seated. This attitude sacrifices some points of standing as much as paint, however I recognize the child-like viewpoint it presents. Slightly than dominating tables from above, I discover below tables and into shadows, like peering into caves or observing porches throughout the road. They grow to be architectural areas reasonably than mere furnishings to go by. I would like my work to be like exploring a international metropolis, particularly on these days with out an agenda, discovering intriguing areas. I goal to duplicate this exploratory expertise alone in my studio.

Beneath Sea Degree, 40 x 34 inches, Oil on Linen, 2022

LG:What function, if any, does temper or emotion play in your coloration selections? Would utilizing coloration to evoke or orchestrate a temper curiosity you? Are you able to discuss a selected instance?

John Lee: I usually try to seize or create a temper in my work, however it is a reflection I make in hindsight. I understand ‘temper’ in two points. ‘Temper’ for me sometimes signifies an general feeling conveyed by the colour or, extra exactly, the sunshine. I goal for an overarching sentiment, but I don’t consciously concentrate on it whereas portray. I discover myself drawn to darker, extra subdued scenes by way of coloration. Examples embody the rear of a quiet thrift store throughout a weekday, a vacated storefront in a strip mall, a darkish hallway, or a basement. These settings normally lack human presence, which is commonly after I discover coloration most intriguing. My work have been described as ‘melancholy’ or ‘unhappy’. There’s some fact in that, however it’s not my intention to intentionally depict particular human feelings by way of my work.

Quiet Zoo, 36 x 38 inches, Oil on Linen, 2022

LG: Your subject material usually depicts cluttered areas, jam-packed with books, provides, instruments, tables, beat-up couches, and submitting cupboards; your coloration orchestration helps transcend the mundane complexity right into a visually cohesive composition. Do you think about these objects and house simply the scaffold for the true present, which is the colour/form/gentle interplay? Or do you see the geometry and drawing of the setup as being equally essential to the composition and which means of the portray?

John Lee: I’ve considered this on and off for a while. Sometimes, I really feel the urge to sketch the topic with pencil to seize the fluid, intuitive connection between shapes and values, objects and light-weight. Nonetheless, it’s normally the colour that originally captivates me, making it a necessary aspect of the picture. This results in a vital disconnect between drawing and portray. It’s unsatisfying to reply to coloration with out having it firmly located in house, to see it lock in. I typically fantasize about being a pure summary painter who can focus solely on coloration, free from the constraints of drawing. But, I would like the composition to convey a way of house and a grounding aircraft. It’s paradoxical as a result of whereas I would like the portray to emphasise coloration and geometry, I additionally want a tangible sense of the ground. Consequently, the portray would possibly veer in direction of a extra standard house, doubtlessly accommodating a determine, one thing I favor to keep away from in my work.

Nudged, 34 x 42 inches, Oil on Linen, 2022

LG: Many painters who work from life use a spot-color approach taught by painters like Edwin Dickinson and Charles Hawthorne. How do you see your strategy as completely different or just like theirs? Are these artists an affect in your work, and in that case, how have you ever tailored or diverged from their strategies to fit your inventive imaginative and prescient?

John Lee: Charles Hawthorne’s e-book, “Hawthorne on Portray,” was one of many first I learn in a portray class, given to me by my instructor. Ever since, I’ve paid shut consideration to painters related to the teachings of Hawthorne and Dickinson of their portray lineage. In my thoughts, I’ve constructed an imaginary ‘Hawthorne household tree’ comprising painters who studied with Hawthorne, Dickinson, Hensche, and Nick, or these probably influenced by their educating. I really like the idea in its purest kind: observing the world visually by way of coloration relationships. It’s greater than a method; it’s a sensibility, a approach of seeing. Henry Hensche’s coloration research and demos, with their vibrant colours, excite me, although his accomplished works and general aesthetic enchantment much less to me. Nonetheless, the notion of constructing with coloration, prioritizing it to the extent of spending appreciable time mixing particular person colours that captivate me, is prime to my portray. Whereas I’m undecided if Hawthorne himself straight influences me, the idea of perceiving the world as coloration spots, shapes, and planes is important.

I tremendously recognize Dickinson’s work however don’t usually take into consideration them. His work had developed a cult-like following, which could have initially put me off. Appreciating Dickinson’s work by way of artwork e-book photos is difficult; there are fewer books on his work, and the photographs are sometimes darkish and tough to decipher. This doesn’t diminish the standard of his work, which I discover terrific. His ‘At First Strike’ work, created with out preliminary drawing or a preconceived ultimate product, painted in response to an preliminary impulse or emotion, remind me of de Kooning’s working technique. I see a connection between the blurriness and unstable footing in Dickinson’s work and pictures, with the need to seize one thing within the second. My work don’t embrace that degree of openness; I require extra construction and gravity. Nonetheless, I do relate to Dickinson by way of coloration, as he reportedly combined his colours down extensively, involving lots of paint mixing to attain his hues.

Revolver, 10 x 14 inches, Oil on Board, 2008

LG: What colours do you set in your palette lately? Do you normally combine your colours individually because the portray progresses, or do you combine massive batches of colours you assume you’ll need earlier than you begin?

John Lee: I combine the colours one after the other as I’m going. Coloration can solely be discovered within the second. The premise for my palette has been cadmium orange, everlasting inexperienced, and Mars violet.A secondary triad is simply one thing that I stumbled upon, however I’ve favored the colours that I obtain when mixing them. Ultramarine Blue is the blue that I exploit probably the most, however typically Phthalo Blue is used as effectively. I exploit Cadmium Crimson and Yellow within the deep kind; I favor the ‘deep’ to the medium I’ve used for years.I exploit Alizarin Crimson, Phthalo Inexperienced, and Ivory Black.I’ve a number of different colours on the palette that I’ll use once in a while, because the portray requires, however I primarily use types of secondary and first colours.I don’t assume they’re like spectrum colours, however they’re colours I can combine with.The colours on my palette embody Venetian Crimson, Cadmium Crimson medium, Cadmium Crimson Deep, Cadmium Orange, Cadmium Yellow Deep, Naples Yellow Grumbacher, Yellow Ochre, Titanium White, Ultramarine Blue, Phthalo Blue, Everlasting Inexperienced, Cadmium Inexperienced, Phthalo Inexperienced, Alizarin Crimson, Mars Violet, Ivory Black.

LG: I learn that you simply use Utrecht and Williamsburg paints. I heard some folks dislike Utrecht’s paint, saying it had an excessive amount of filler. I believe Lennart Anderson as soon as stated, ‘Good painters can use low-cost paint and make one thing fantastic, however college students can purchase the costliest paint they will get. Care to touch upon this?

John Lee: I don’t see an issue with the Utrecht paint in that I’m going by way of massive tubes of my colours (in each Utrecht and Williamsburg), however I’ve a number of smaller tubes of Williamsburg and Holbein colours round that I by no means use!Costly paint could also be arguably stronger in a approach, however it’s additionally akin to a way of supplies and materiality that I don’t relate to.I don’t look too lengthy on the instruments and supplies.

Pam’s Medieval Palace, 12 x 9 inches, Oil on Board, 2014

Soapstone, 9 x 12 inches, Oil on Panel, 2013

LG: Are you able to describe the methods you utilize to create the phantasm of spatial recession in your work? Correct angles and perspective would appear essential in your work. Does coloration play a roughly essential function within the phantasm of spatial recession than the normal perspective in your work?

John Lee: I’ve at all times favored the concept that when you paint the relationships, the house takes care of itself.I don’t use one thing like a vanishing level or do one thing purposely to make the house recede.Once I see one thing not sitting spatially, I alter it, in fact, however it has to do with the colour not being right or the sharpness of an edge or a transition being too jarring.I like the concept that it’s simply portray coloration relationships appropriately to make the portray work.However appropriately might not imply copying nature.The angles are naturally a part of making it work. All the pieces is each a coloration and a form.The form has an axis and edges.It goes again to the sooner query concerning the geometry of the drawing in relation to the colour. I believe it’s all essential (like the colour and the drawing) and organically intertwined.We dissect composition for comfort to debate work and educate portray to others.

Examine for Tooth like a Brit, 30 x 26 inches, Oil on Linen, 2021

Tooth Like a Brit, 30 x 40 inches, Oil on Linen, 2022

LG: Your work usually emphasize diagonals or orthogonal traces; you don’t appear to emphasize the vertical/horizontal grid-like relationships. Is that this one thing you consider?

John Lee: In hindsight, I understand that after I get an thought for a portray, I favor to be positioned barely off to the aspect to create a diagonal composition. It’s not an excessively dramatic diagonal, however it’s not a direct frontal view both. I consider {that a} frontal view would possibly seem too flat or symmetrical, whereas a diagonal view creates a way of depth and discovery. When seen from an indirect angle, the planes within the portray seem to rise upwards, but they nonetheless appear grounded and consistent with gravity.

LG: What would you say is most important on your compositions to get proper?

John Lee: After giving it some thought, I’ve concluded that every thing should really feel proper. It might sound imprecise, however composition is about attaining that sense of concord. An ideal portray for me creates an open and grounded house, however doesn’t essentially invite somebody in. The colour should be distinctive and fascinating, but it must also mix seamlessly with the spatial aircraft of the portray. In different phrases, I would like the distinctive high quality and weirdness of the colour, however I additionally need the colour to really feel prefer it exists throughout the house of the portray.

The portray ought to strike a steadiness between performance, storytelling, and abstraction. I don’t need it to be too summary or too grounded in actuality. It should exist someplace within the center, negating these two extremes. Though it’s an summary portray, I would like it to be based mostly on statement.

Not for Home Use, 44 x 34 inches, Oil on Linen, 2022

LG: Has there been some thought or observe in portray you as soon as strongly believed in that you simply’ve modified your thoughts about?

John Lee: No, however I’ve frolicked fascinated about artists and genres coming from a unique perspective.I learn a number of books about Frank Stella, as an illustration.As talked about earlier, whereas on the Pennsylvania Academy, I acquired into researching educational educating for a few years and was a bit obsessive about anatomy for a 12 months.I attempted some crosshatching. Up to now, I used to be an avid researcher of the Eighties artwork world and the painters they have been influenced by.As a researcher, I acquired into Pop, Minimalism, Summary Expressionism, Neo-Expressionism, and Neo-Conceptualism.On reflection, it was all simply curiosity and making an attempt to grasp specific artwork worlds
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However actually, every thing clicked for me at first as a result of pleasure of noticed coloration and light-weight.I instantly fell in love with painters like Fairfield Porter and Lennart Anderson, who have been instantly accessible.The love of coloration quickly led me to see that left leg in Leland Bell’s 1976 ‘Morning’ portray (in Fox Weber’s e-book).The understanding of house and motion that I acquired from Bell opened the world of portray for me, alongside the attention for coloration and light-weight from the colour spot concepts, and it has constructed upon this basis ever since.

Below the Fitted Sheet, 56 x 56 inches, Oil on Canvas, 2022

LG: In your educating, do you ever discover that college students and school in the present day are extra involved with problems with social relevance, narrative which means, and the coed’s intent, essential issues to debate in critiques? Have the extra conventional standards about the place portray can go mistaken visually taken a lesser function? Are the measures for evaluating ‘good’ and ‘dangerous’ artwork completely different in the present day than what you skilled as a scholar? Does that matter?

John Lee: College students considerably understandably wish to make one thing significant, and so they know that social or private topics are significant.They make a picture or kind that depicts that significant topic, both straight or not directly.Whether or not they work figuratively or non-figuratively, from statement, picture, creativeness, or reminiscence, they perceive a specific topic and wish to talk their concepts.They wish to inform their story, whereas I would like them to listen to one: that of Matisse, Picasso, Morandi, or Mondrian.Artists talk by way of the forms of marks, the interplay, and the colour interplay.For instance, there’s which means in the place the horizon line is positioned in a panorama portray. The visible kind tells a narrative; it’s not about pointing exterior of itself to seek out which means.However these forms of issues with educating have at all times been there!They return so far as I can personally keep in mind.I can recall many examples of badly painted photos which are speculated to have which means due to their subject material, that one would possibly see in studio lecture rooms or galleries.Mercedes Matter wrote that article about educating artwork in 1971, I believe. And I’ve at all times held the New York Studio Faculty within the highest regard.I can keep in mind the primary time I noticed the varsity’s catalog within the spring of 1990 and the way it spoke to me.
However does it matter?I’m hopeful with my educating and wish everybody to get it.I would like them to see the colour and really feel the gravity, empathize with the topic visually, really feel the actions and counter-movements, and perceive one thing about visible dynamics and the way they’ve inherent which means.

Submariner, 22 x 24 inches, Oil on Canvas, 2004

LG: To what extent can irony and conceptual points flip what might need historically been thought-about a ‘dangerous portray’ right into a ‘good portray’?

John Lee: I’ve heard of an notorious artwork exhibition round 1979 or 81, a NY present titled ‘Dangerous Portray’ (I consider that was the title).I may look it up, however from my reminiscence, painters like David Salle have been included.I believe I learn that Leland Bell noticed Salle’s work and didn’t perceive why it was painted the way in which it was (once you consider a traditional Salle portray).Somebody tried to clarify to Bell that the portray was painted badly on function, and Bell remarked, ‘That’s ridiculous.’ That is simply my reminiscence from studying this within the late Eighties.I confirmed this interchange (from an artwork journal) to my portray teacher then and stated that Bell doesn’t perceive the irony of creating artwork from that perspective.However I used to be additionally 20 years previous and within the 80s artwork world and painters that Warhol influenced.I hadn’t developed an curiosity but in painters like Cezanne or Matisse.It takes time and improvement by way of some depth of immersion to understand the standard and feeling in portray.On the identical time, there have been issues about portray that I immediately gravitated in direction of (like coloration).

I suppose I’m saying that when you don’t see the interplay of kind, you’ll extra doubtless gravitate in direction of one other interpretation, corresponding to irony or conceptual.Maybe a standup comic can mock another person’s life and get amusing solely as a result of the comic and the viewers haven’t lived that (mocked) particular person’s life.They aren’t inside that particular person’s life.I are inclined to assume that painters recognize portray as a result of they have a look at it and live the lifetime of the portray.The painter can see and picture the considering and the sensation that went on to make that portray; they will see what the painter was responding to and the way they’re shaping it.Fairfield Porter talked about the concept that the particular person trying on the portray lives the painter’s life ‘vicariously.’The painter can see into the portray and uncover the impulse and the motivation of the portray.